Parenting Teens with Purpose + Hope with Melissa Kruger, Krista Gilbert, and Alex Kukendall | Word First

hi we are talking to parents of teenagers today if you've pushed Play We Are trusting that there are teens in your life that you love and care about and likely are parenting we have invited Melissa Krueger on to talk to us about parenting teens this is based on her new book parenting with hope I love that title because I need it raising teens for Christ in a secular age Melissa serves as the vice president of discipleship programming for the Gospel Coalition and she is the author of multiple books and she is a mom so she's got lots of authority on this and lots of great ideas they have she's married to Mike who is the president of Reformed Theological Seminary and they have three children so I don't think there's really any question why we are talking about raising teens uh with hope in a time that feels very complicated very overwhelming to parents of faith and so we're not going to really jump so much into the why as maybe the how so let's welcome Melissa Melissa welcome to the show thanks so much for having me it's great to be with you ladies yes well just to give us some context why don't you tell us a little bit about your family yeah so I have three kids my oldest is 24 I say that we added a child to our our home this summer my 24-year-old got married this Summer and so now I I got a new son-in-law by marriage and so I was like this is a great way to birth a child you know you just marry him off and we love he just appears yeah he just appears fully raised and he's delightful so we're very thankful for that so um and then my son is 21 and my youngest is getting ready to turn 18 she's still at home but she we are going through all the college applications which I'm sure y'all are very familiar with um we're in that season right now with her so I'm on the edge of the empty nest and feeling very sad about that um I know and we we we appreciate them sometimes more when they're gone right we realize wait they weren't so bad I liked having them around there's something just about the the um you know the movement of the home that shifts with every child that leaves you know it just gets a little quieter and a little quiet and we love that quiet at some sense but then you know it's going to be really quiet next year so it'll be it'll be a new a new change well I feel like there's a lot of angst in Parenting teenagers so I I mean I hear both of you talking and saying yeah I love teenagers I love this season but that's not the story for everyone there is actually a lot of tension around Parenting teenagers and it feels like then those people that aren't in a good place with their teenagers and they're looking at those people that are and they're feeling what did I do wrong and they're pointing the finger at themselves and they're like how did my child get wrapped up in this and this this person's child didn't why did that happen and I just think there's there's such a spectrum right now of where teenagers are at and some are hardly able to get out of bed in the morning and some are thriving and they're headed off to college and they're flying through life it seems and then there's everywhere in between and so can you start by just speaking a little bit to that spectrum and where teenagers are and where parents are in the midst of that yeah I think that's a really important thing to say there is this huge spectrum and so what I what I always like to begin with whatever your teenager's story it's not just their story God is working in your story in whatever teenager you have I think sometimes we look at our teenagers and we're so consumed with what did I do wrong why is this season so hard we're forgetting that God you know that's not that's part of our story too and it's part of something we might be suffering through and God might be working on us in certain ways just like he'd be working on us if you we were dealing with an illness or you know something else in our life all suffering apart from God in some sense would just be vain right in the world's eyes but because we're Christians we actually know so God's doing something in that suffering and I don't for a Mom's heart I'm not sure there's a deeper suffering than when our kids are suffering and we're watching them walk through hard things all we want to do is fix it so the thing I trust in is when God sees me having to bear that hardness with my kids working he sees me with those same eyes I'm his child so you while we're parents and we're so used to carrying all these burdens we do have a he calls himself father um and that's find that really actually hopeful I'm not alone because I think here's the thing every Mom feels alone in her personal Journey with her kids I'm dealing with struggles with my kids that might look like well that would be easy to deal with to you but it's it's my child's struggle and I'm still bearing that and some people are bearing struggles that we all look at and say I don't know what i' do in that case and the Lord will be with her as well I really I really do believe that but I think it is a really difficult thing in our world of comparison to think somebody's doing it better someone's got it easier I will say this I was a high school teacher that's my background I love teenagers I genuinely love them enough to professionalize go into this professionally and be around them all day and I I will say I mean some kids just really struggle in these years you know and you see but they don't always stay there and I think that's important to realize too like this is one part of their story and it's really not about us as the parents it's about how do we walk with them through this part of their story and I think getting that Focus off of ourselves onto God and even onto our teen can help as we're whatever stage of parenting we're in or whatever struggle of parenting we're in I do want to pause right there and talk a little bit about um what you said about it being part of the parents story because I think this is really a hard thing and I hear people talk about this all the time just my friends who are raising teens or young adults that they say well I can't really share that because that's their story to share and there is truth to that I mean they're the ones living it and so it's their story to share but at the same time I think what what parents are feeling is but it's also my story and so how do you manage that tension because you're trying to preserve the dignity and and integrity in that relationship trust really in that relationship and yet it's also a part of your story so what do you do with that yeah yeah I think if anytime we know that prayer matters it's in parenting teens because there are some things there are some parts of my K stories I haven't told anyone I haven't shared with any of my friends because it it's so delicate you know and but I have told the Lord a lot about it I have journaled a lot about it and and I believe that really matters but I also think it's helpful I mean we have so many resources now that we can go to like podcast I mean we can so if we know our child's dealing with a particular issue a lot of times we can go somewhere and find help a little bit more specific to our needs I also think older women in the church that's always a little bit of a safer place to me to find someone 20 years older than me who's not in my circle of friends who maybe doesn't you know it's a little different like if we three were together and all of our kids had grown up together those are the people I most want to sh with but that might not be the best thing in this season because it might really change how one of you views my child in a way and something might slip to your child and then your child says something to my child I mean you know we just we want to avoid that I think so finding older people that we can trust who we can go to and say hey this is really hard will you pray for me and it those are the things I found but I think it's I think that's why it makes it a really lonely season for moms of teens and the benefit of women who are 20 years ahead is maybe they have experienced not just that hard but also the Redemption that has happened after and that can provide some hope and point toward hope not always but often well and they've maybe heard their friend stories 10 years later and so they you we we all get Collective Stories the older we get because it's not just our experience it's the experiences we've walked through friends with so I have friends right now who are in the middle middle of some really difficult public stories I mean because when your kid goes to a treatment center it's public that they're not in your house anymore you know and so they'll be that woman in 20 years I could point someone to you know but right now she's in the middle of her story and they need people to find to you know older people they can reach out to because I mean I'm like I just I can pray for her but I you know that's that's where I am as a friend and that's that's part of our role as friends to really pray and do that but I don't have lived experience with a lot of things my friends are facing and I think to have the humility to know we don't know what's best but we serve a God who can make make that clear that's really important that piece right there and that is that everyone is living their own story so every child is different every family is different and to let people be different to let them navigate it the way that they feel called and led by the Lord to navigate it because maybe that's not the way you would navigate it but that is we have to trust that God is speaking to me God is speaking to you uniquely God is speaking to them uniquely and that is how God is leading them in their story which is not your story and so I think even that judgment piece that people can be so hard on each other and instead why don't we come alongside each other and support each other rather than well that's not how I do it you know which feels so judgmental as opposed to compassionate or loving really yeah yeah I I just think we really don't know what we do because it's not our s situation I mean it's so easy to look over the fence when when kids are struggling I mean and this starts in the toddler years right it's like you know or kid who's not sleeping through the night and we're like well if you just put them on the program then they'd sleep through the night you know this judgment in hood you know we've got to let go of I mean we've really got to let go of because we just don't know what we don't know and I mean if wisdom teaches us anything it's we don't know what we don't know um and and I think that's why and it sounds like it sounds like I'm saying something TR but the real way we love our teens and we love our friends who are raising teens is to pray because I don't know I'm finite I'm limited but like God knows everything God can put me in a situation where I have happen to be at church one Sunday and I sit next to the very older woman I should talk to about this he can arrange that I I can't make that happen but he can do that so I think um you know people always tell you that you know you're going to have to become more prayerful as they age but I have felt that in every way I feel so much less in control of what my teens are going through my ability to help you know you miss the days of a band-aid and a kiss making it all better you know and we know first heartbreaks that takes time you those things aren't easy so we're you know we're learning and growing hopefully as people as we parent these teenagers yeah boy that's true that's really true and the the prayer life is how we survive it's how we get up in the morning and say I don't know how I'm going to face this thing this situation this circumstance with my child okay Lord I don't know so I'm trusting you to get me through it and especially if it's something you don't feel like you can talk to many people about so let's talk about how we parent during this time so this is a time of transition for kids if they are on the developmentally typical scale they're becoming more independent and having their own ideas and their own opinions and so give us some wisdom Melissa on how we guide our kids in a time in history when things might feel really crazy outside of our homes how do we put down some Roots inside of our homes with our kids who may or may not be open to some of the things we're saying yeah that's a good question at the beginning of the book I actually talk about this season being a little bit like trying to learn learn how to drive a stick shift car I don't know if you remember this back in the day you you have to have to learn how to put your foot on the break but start to give gas and hit the clutch at the exact right moment and if you don't you stall and I think parenting teens is a little bit like that like when do I need to hit the brake when do I need to hit the gas when's it okay and it's going to be different with each kid so it's not only it's different for every family it's different for each kid I have boy and I have two girls and they are developmentally different you know boys frontal loes form at different times you know they're they're going through different struggles that each of them has gone through totally different struggles than the others so there is this notion that I think when you have younger kids you can say these are the family Rules and it can be a little bit more across the board this is what we do I think as we move into the teen years what can really help is to see each child as an individual I'm big on on having conversations not just having rules at this age so the principle stays the same I'm the parent you're the child the practice of that principle changes as your child ages so when they're two I say don't run out in the street I don't have a big chat with you about that I don't ask you how you feel about that I just say Don't run in the street you're going to have to come inside if you do that it's just the rule right as a teenager I think there's a conversation to be had because what we're seeking to do is help train their heart not just their behavior we want to un them to understand hey if you drink and drive these are some of those implications of what might happen it's it's not just hey don't ever do this you'll be in so much trouble if you do this let's have a conversation about why these choices have huge ramifications and I'm trying to protect you in this not keep you from life so just I think at this Agee kids needed to be invited into the how do we come to these conclusions you can still have rules I'm all for having family expectations but I think the communication of those really needs to grow as our kids grow yeah I could not agree more that whole parenting according to the individual it's just critical we have to and if we're looking at through this lens of how do we Infuse hope into our homes into our families into really our world viw um our prayer life it it really is we have to tailor it we have to because every child responds differently to to rules or to um you know standards that the family has or to their environment or to their friends and every child is so unique and so as we're looking at this idea of Hope how do we bring hope into I mean I hear you I hear you kind of in a in a subtle way talking about that but how do we bring hope to these relationships with our te I think I think with teens a lot of people are hoping in a really shortterm gain I want this season to go well I want my kid to like me I mean we can hope in the wrong things I just want them to get asked to prom or whatever you know I mean we all have we we have these things we want for our kids but I think when I'm talking about hope the object of Our Hope really matters so I think too often we put our hope in things that aren't secure and the reality is the only thing that what the Bible tells us over and over put your hope in God and I think what that means in the teen years is to be able to say I don't know why my child's going through this I don't know why it's their senior year and they've never been asked to a dance and these are simple things I'm sharing I mean I know we have much more heart-wrenching but these things get to us as parents too I can't hope that their circumstances are always going to be easy because the reality is I look around and I'm like no one gets an easy pass in life this is a world full of suffering this is a world that's hard so our kids I can't hope that I'm going to prevent them from suffering what we H in is that God is with us in the midst of this and that he is doing something that will actually ultimately be for their good that is a place that's secure for My Hope just them getting an easy pass them getting into the college I want them never getting a speeding ticket or being arrested or never doing drugs or never doing alcohol I can't put my hope there I can pray I can pray and ask God to protect them from everything but my Hope's got to be in I'm G to trust in God in this I'm not going to parent out of fear all my life because what fear does is leads to control TR and that's a terrible environment to grow up in or fear can also lead to our emotional security being so wrapped up in our kid being okay that it is an enormous burden on our teenager if they are walking around thinking well mom is all wrapped up in my if I have a good group of friends or if I you know whatever it might be I think we can go two ways we can either be so fearful socially that they're not okay or so fearful that they never make a mistake that we get controlling and our kids that's a pressure cooker from us that they're forced to grow up into whereas when I put my hope in God and I lay it before him and I say I can't I can't make their life okay that actually makes me a better parent rather than trying to navigate all of life to make sure everything's okay for them but rather than because what it allows me to do it allows me to come side by side with my teen and say I don't don't even know what we should do here but I'm going to be here with you we're going to walk through it together that actually brings the temperature down for them too and gives them it makes you a safe place to talk to because they know you don't know everything and that's okay for them to know we don't know everything because we don't and I think when they start to see that they're actually they warm up to us rather than when we get controlling or fearful or anxious they can feel that pressure cooker and they run from it okay so I want to do like a real life scenario so let's say there is um a child who let's just use dating because there's a lot of influence in dating so let's say your child is dating someone and your red flags are going up and there's some fear rising up and you're like oh this P this this significant other is gaining kind of more and more power over my child I'm really worried about this influence and the parents fear is starting to go through the roof and all they want to do is say no you cannot dat that person or say start saying negative things about that person what do you do as a parent according to what you just said what is your response instead of that yeah what I always say is like this is the moment where it's totally okay as a parent to completely fake it meaning I I try to I actually just try to act super calm well tell me what you like about the person you know just I try to be interested about them because it takes some of the power out of it when you know there sometimes kids just some personalities just kind of like to rebel I think some kids are just more that's that's the way they go some learn the hard ways some learn the easy ways exactly true exactly and whether they're a pleaser or a rebel to say have a conversation just like you would with like if you were dating someone you know in an imaginary world like a friend of mine or a friend's kid I could easily ask them oh tell me what you like about him I would just be interested it's when get so fearful because it's wrapped up in things about ourselves maybe bad experiences we had we walked through a bad boyfriend and maybe we just want to protect our kid from that that's again it's all about what we've been through rather than just saying hey tell me about this person so who are their friends just being interested in it in who who they are I think that's a great place to begin and you know I think it's fine to have guidelines about dating and things like that like yeah how much time they can spend together but I think as much as we can keep the door open the wiser we will be because they have a lot of freedom at this age you can't lock them in their room so and sometimes what's forbidden becomes the most enticing thing whereas most things really will run their course especially in the teen years very few people actually end up marrying these people I'd actually be a little more concerned with my 24 year old if they were dating someone who felt really abusive in some way or unkind but in the teen years I think one of our goals is to keep the conversation going and so I and you know really bad decisions can be made in the teen years so it's it's hard so I keep the conversation going and pray a lot like those two things but but yeah I'm big on asking questions with kids in a loving way in an interested way it doesn't prevent them from making mistakes but it might keep them talking to you and I think that really matters [Music] yeah there's that Dynamic of you talk to me and you tell me things and now there needs to be a consequence so tell me things and yeah I I'm just thinking of a conversation I had a couple days ago and I told my husband I don't know if I'm really doing myself any favors here because I'm maybe not keeping that door open by my responses she's never going to tell me anything again uh so I think we do have that that balance of always trying to know my I do have a responsibility as your parent to keep you safe and to hold some standards here and at the same time I recognize you are growing up and you are starting to have opinions and you are starting to have freedom and you are in high school and and so just yeah it it is all of that and I also want to say you you know you mentioned that we get wiser as we get older or maybe didn't say it in those exact words but that's how I took it and so we also parent differently as we've had more kids right and so the way that we parent our fourth child may be different than the way that we parent our first first children children I just I mean I feel like I have constant repair that needs to happen um but it is because I think we probably have walked through some things and have realized maybe faced some of our fears like the world did not end when we parented through this we all got through it and it's going to be okay and just kind of the Long View holding that Long View as we parent our teenagers of this is a blip I really wish this wasn't a blip like I really wish this wasn't and it and so we need to move forward and trust that God is going to do what God does which is use all things for his good and redeem what can be redeemed here yeah I think what you're saying though is so important because you know that we we can't get them out of the situation necessarily especially you know I look back and I think there's a there's a verse that says Reckless words Pierce like a sword but the tongue of the wise brings healing and sometimes just holding our tongue maybe that's what we learn as we age just saying left is is is wisdom and again I think this is really different with a 19yearold and a 12y old again I'm gonna say a lot more to my 12-year-old and gonna have a lot more boundaries with my 12-y old my 19-year-old I'm going to be listening a lot and trying to keep the relationship open because I just I you I don't have the same ability to even control their world like what they're allowed to do at 19 and so I think what we're trying to in the teen years honestly in some ways is prevent as much damage as we can because I bet if you if the three of us were really honest I have things that were said to me in my teen years that still haunt me today yeah I mean that you yeah whether it's about how we look you know about how we act or whatever and they come back in our head and we're like am I that person am I that so part of my goal as a parent in some ways is to do least amount of damage as I can can when I'm working with my teen um and to remember my behavior and my response is my response my kid might come in Grumpy my kid might come in slamming doors and in a really sour mood and they might be ready for a fight I'm the adult in the room so I I need to act like the adult and and sometimes that just means letting him come in and slam the door and be disrespectful and say to myself I'm going to handle that in an hour when things have had time to cool down but I'm not going to get in a fighting war with them about this right now so wisdom even and when we tell our kids things and correct their behavior I have just found if normally if I wait an hour an hour and a half and talk when things are calmer I don't say wrong things and that really helps the conversation go better yeah you're taking responsibility for yourself and how you're showing up it's so interesting because so I'm a coach and one of the things they teach us in training is pay attention to how you internally are responding to the person you're coaching because that actually is also determining the coaching session which I think is so interesting right it's not just what they're saying it's actually how I'm responding and so I have to be aware of what's Happening inside of me and it's the same concept it's the exact same concept we have to be aware of what's being triggered inside of us as the parent whether that is fear or whether that's an old wound that we have whatever it is right that how are we being triggered that then is determining how we are responding to this child because that's essential and one of the things that helps me is instead of asking why to ask what so instead of saying God why is this happening or why is this this way asking God what are you doing in me through me in that child through that child right like really switching that question and so do you have some other ways that are helpful of kind of checking our own temperature that's good mine is normally like dear Jesus help me that's a really good I like the what that's a new question because normally all I can get out is I don't even know what to ask for I don't even know what to ask for some days in it all and yet he still answers in his kindness when I'm just like please help me cuz I don't I don't know what to do with this you know I think there are some really practical things sometimes we don't think about as families of teens in the book I talk about I actually see as three of the biggest difficulties which are not sex drugs and rock and roll that maybe we faced back in the 80s I actually think it's Sports and activities it's Scholastic achievement and its social acceptance those are the three what I call Idols of our age that I think really raise the temperature in parenting teens right now um and that has yeah there's we haven't even discussed cell phones and all of that that comes but that can be you know like socially acceptable like well you have to have one at 12 or you'll not have any friends and these these questions that come up but if I had to hit on one thing it would actually be Sports and activities I think it is just doing so much to the family in our stress levels so one reason the temperature is so constantly hot is because we're having to run from activity to activity and parents are stressed with one another we're stressed with all the kids it's this constant Shuffle okay now you spent three hours at your sporting event well now you better get on that homework assignment so as a mom I were on all the time gosh that's exhausting and so and and and at some point we have to say these are our choices yeah this is a choice we are making as a society to say our kid needs to be in an activity every day and we never have family dinners together and we are going to try to get everyone in an Ivy League when no one needs to go to an Ivy League to live a happy full life yeah I mean like we're we're making these cultural choices and I think we maybe need to reevaluate maybe that's not what happiness is like what's the endgame there are you really going to be happy if you play a sport in college are you really going to be satisfied if you go to the ivy league are you really going to be you know so socially popular because you had a cell phone at 12 like I don't yeah I when you step back and say huh maybe it would really matter that our family had family dinners every night and we're going to fight for that maybe it would really matter that we have space to actually get a little bored and do a puzzle as a family and I so I think there are some proactive things we can do that can really help um lower I like to say lower the temperature of the teenage AG years but our teens aren't aware enough to make those choices we have to be the parents and really say what's best for our family is my kid getting enough sleep I mean it's just biological fact they need more sleep and yet so many teens do not get the amount of sleep they do well that leads to Greater rates of depression that leads to Greater problems down the road in other areas and we we're like oh but they have to be at all these things or they won't be well-rounded MH yeah who cares if they're well-rounded it just it drives me crazy yeah I get it yeah yeah I I think a a paradigm question that could be asked is this helping us all of us in this house love God and love others more yeah and yeah and so I think being part of a team can be but to what cost at what cost because there's tradeoffs and so we in our house are always talking about trade-offs if we do this then we're giving up this okay are we okay with that and it's intentionality about it and there is a little bit of counter culturalism in that and the environment that you put yourself in too some depending on where you live in the country you may have some choice in that you know some people can choose where they send their kids to school and some people can't I think for example we have chosen to not send our kids to a really rich rigorous Academic School where that's the expectation for every student it's available to kids if they want it and so what we've told our kids is this is available to you I think because of who you are it would be a good thing for you to take these challenging classes because you can handle it and a challenge is good but the point where it becomes overwhelming we're opting out of that particular class that for some of our friends not so much at our high school but who have chosen to send their kids to other high schools because they want that academic rigor it's hard for them to relate to and so to be able to say it's okay we can make different choices in this and um not make it a thing with other people but just say this is it's okay we're just gonna do it the way that we do it that's right in our family I was taught when my kids were little through mobs through my mobs group to say in our family in our family what we value is getting good rest and sleep and so we're not going to push ourselves that's right and that's such a gift to our kids and again yeah like my kids have played Sports they've done activities that you know but they've also had some time to I call it P time just be bored you know not unstructured boredom we know that's bad for kids to have too much time but normally we're talking about like a seven-year-old there who has too much time on their hands and gets into trouble or whatever I'm just I I don't see many teens I know just with all this time on their hands most of them work harder than most adults I know you know when you look at their days and they're so scheduled and I mean my my son's college his freshman year had nine suicides nine and and these are kids you know I get the sense they worked really hard to get into that school and then they get there and they're like what is my life about you know I mean there's just we have huge crisis is going on with how kids are doing and um I I just think we're missing some big things and sometimes you just need you know to be slower a and be able to take care of your mental health but when you're constantly you know being pushed and pushed and pushed and I feel like our kids are really hurting from this um and and social media plays a role and all of that I mean there there are so many factors coming in but any Factor we can make a little bit better think is worth worth trying trying with our kids I have seen that in the Barna research that the amount of pressure that kids feel is different than previous generations they feel the pressure in a way that's different and yes technology is a part of that but also just the the ramp up of all of these things of doing club sports by the time you're seven or eight all of that plays into this level of pressure that kids feel that is now documented in research which I think is interesting so okay Melissa as we're as we close today what would be your final charge or encouragement to parents who are in this season with their kids I think my biggest piece of Hope is this um the basics that God asked of us read his read the Bible pray be in church those simple things are some of the biggest gifts you can give to your teenager not that you're forcing them to pray or forcing them to read the Bible but that you are reading the Bible and that you are praying for them that will actually change us as parents and and what's hopeful about that in my mind is I can control that I can control I'm gonna put myself in church I'm G to hear the word taught every week because my soul needs that that's the oxygen I need before I try to put the oxygen mask on someone else those simple acts of being in God's word being a mom of prayer and being in church and there's I call it a three-legged stool that Foundation is the foundation we as parents need to walk through this season well and that doesn't have anything to do with culture that doesn't have anything to do with how our teens's doing that that's fully how the Lord can really work in our lives and so I just encourage you you know get up a few minutes early listen listen to God his word will comfort and encourage you pour all your fears and anxieties out to him and then go on Sunday mornings and worship with others and it it changes Our Lives um and it's what we need as moms of teens thank you Melissa so appreciate you being on today thanks for having me