S6 | Never Alone with Melissa Kruger | Word First

[Music] and so his presence is this attribute over and over and over in Scripture that God uses to reassure his people and so it's one of my favorite things I like to remind myself of because you know as moms and as people who love people I think one of my greatest fears is losing people I love I mean I think all feel this and I've had to rest in the fact that the Lord says I will never leave you or forsake you like he's the only one who can actually make that promise to me my spouse can't really make that promise my kids can't make that promise and I can't make that promise but the Lord can Faithfully make that promise that I'm with you always till the end of the AG Hello friends this is Eve stypes and together with my co-host ruio Simons let me welcome you to the grace La podcast if you've listened for very long you're pretty familiar with with Ruth and I's voices but today you're going to hear a third voice because we have a guest in this special season of the podcast we're welcoming treasured guests to share a little bit of their own stories as we celebrate the release of Pilgrim 25 ways God's character leads us onward which is Ruth's newest full color devotional in today's episode you'll hear from author and Bible teacher Melissa Krueger Melissa serves as the vice president of discipleship programming for the Gospel Coalition she's the author of multiple books including the end of Eve Walking with God in the season of motherhood growing together and wherever you go I want you to know her husband Mike is the president of Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte and they have three children we are so grateful you're listening in today let's get [Music] started we are so excited to sit down with Melissa today for listeners who might not be super familiar with you or your work can you tell us a little bit about yourself yeah thanks so much for having me um my name is Melissa I live in Charlotte North Carolina way across the country from Ruth and um and I am the vice president of discipleship programming for the Gospel Coalition and I love what I get to do um it involves working with a lot of women's events and planning national conferences for TGC and it's it's a lot of fun and I also write and speak um and that's where I get to run into Ruth a lot of places all over the country so it's really it's really fun that our paths get to cross at different places yep and we are real life friends as in we try to squeeze in time together anytime we can and um you did you mention that you're a mama to growing and grown kids because that's somewhere where we're both like going through different new seasons of life together while holding these Ministries publicly but we've got this private Ministry going on at home too as we're launching kids so yes and you're do what I'm doing so I have half the number of Ruth the same age season but I'm always amazed that she's managing it with double theil so I know right no it's always hard your mama heart is like wait I I wanted to raise adults that I love but now you're leaving and I love you and I like you I know gosh I can't even imagine mine are still so little I know it I mean it it's cliche to say it passes so quickly but it really does and so every stage is amazing in its own way and um you know for anyone listening I always say hey Melissa and I were not doing all the things that we're doing back when the kids were little so I always feel like I have to interject that because anyone who's listening is like wait what you have all these kids and you're launching kids and you're the vice president of discipleship and no not all of these Ministries were all in full bloom in a different season of life and so a lot of what you see in Melissa's amazing books and resources came out of I'm sure a season where she was doing a lot of that work behind the scenes just as I've told about my story as well so yeah yeah a lot of cleaning floors and thinking of Bible studies I wanted to work on but you know it's like when you're cleaning up the spills you're thinking huh this what you needed something for your mind to go to in those little years which was full of a lot of mundane work yeah and now you know we have all this mental work we're doing but but those young years with the kids it was it was your brain would wander to those places and so now we get to do some of that but but a lot of the real work was done in the cleaning up and the you know absolutely the every day absolutely yeah man well I'd love to hear a little bit more even just me personally but also for our listeners about your Pilgrim Journey overall how did you come to Faith and how has your walk with Jesus changed over time yeah I um I was really thankful to grow up in a home where I went to church every every Sunday um it was definitely a part of our Rhythm you know going every week and I'm so thankful for that I I would say though it wasn't until I was in high school that I started understanding I wasn't just born a Christian you know I I kind of thought it was just something you were because that's what you did and I hadn't really heard in my church context um that you I was a sinner and I needed Grace um and so that was this whole revolutionary thing that I started hearing about the time I was in high school I got really involved with a Ministry called FCA The Fellowship of Christian athletes and you know I think I was one of those kids who probably walked down the aisle like 10 times just to make sure it took because in my church context we never did that like so okay but I have to stop real quick you just said Fellowship of Christian athletes I didn't know know you were like I don't mean to say I didn't know you were athletic I just mean that's not the context by which you and I know each other that's all I mean I just mean you and I do a good job of going out to eat and there's a spot they waiting for us sometime down the but what sport did you play now I need to know I actually played soccer very like competitively for a long time wowa Krueger oh my goodness I play soccer and I play tennis so I was play tennis all new respect okay okay I played I played soccer year round um and loved it actually um but yeah that's why I also love to eat I I really do the exercising so that I can do the sport activity of eating later so they they work well I'm just impressed because i' never Ste foot into FCA because I was a swimmer for a very short amount of time but not super athletic so but it was a great it was just such a great thing I know a large public high school and let me tell you it was amazing the impact that that Ministry had on our high school we prayed before every soccer match like our team I mean it was kind of an amazing impact I watched it have on the school and um so I started I got really involved with that and um really learned about discipleship and how to walk with the Lord and how to study the Bible for myself and you know I was doing crazy things like at 16 I started teaching a Bible study because I didn't know any better and who knows the terrible things I said probably in that Bible study but the Lord is gracious with us right you know I mean he calls us to himself and it was like I had that experience of the Lord called me to himself and I just was like this is such good news I have to tell other people and so I think from the moment I heard I wanted to tell and I would say that's continued my whole journey is I'm I'm constantly listening to the Lord through his word and I'm wanting to tell others about what I found you know it's like finding treasure and giving it back to others and so I would say that started at 14 and that's really continued you know God is so faithful I mean because you very much do that you are constantly mining the treasure and sharing it with others in the form of children's books and bible studies and books for parents which you have one coming up as well and so just super super grateful for all that and you know Melissa I'm think you're you're like really one of our very first if not first guests on this podcast because we're not an interview based podcast and this podcast series really came out of the heart and the desire that I have for just making sure that I'm telling real stories connected to this um devotional that I wrote Pilgrim because I really feel like God's character and these truths about who God is we forget that they lead our Journeys so like even though you were like just kind of sharing whatever ever you were learning and you were kind of young and you don't really know for sure that everything you said was accurate but he kept revealing his character over and over again and his faithfulness is not dependent on your faithfulness he just calls you closer to walk with him because he keeps revealing his character day by day over time which is the whole goal that I had in in even writing these but um we're going to get into more of that today because it's really about God's character not just about our journeys of like hey how did I end up finding my way through life and serving him and honoring him no it's like the very things that you get to do every day that I witness and I hope our listeners get to tap into and and access your resources but and and come to gospel Collision Women's Conference and you know all these wonderful things that you're a part of but these things come out of him saying hey this is who I am I'm G to give Melissa an opportunity to step into the opportunities I've already LED and gone before in in creating and in spearheading it's not you creating those things God's doing that because of his character right that leads us onward is the subtitle that I had picked for this book and so I love that you told that story and thanks for sharing that because I wouldn't have known that about you so love it so fun well one of the key features of Pilgrim is kind of working through these different characteristics or the ways that God is and so today we're going to talk a little bit about the omnipresence of God Ruth why don't you kick us off why did that feel like an important kind of Doctrine or idea to even talk about when we talk about Pilgrim Journeys yeah well I think that a lot of times one of my goals for the book was that I wanted devotionals that helped us feel like hey this is not so intimidating to talk about theology or talk about God's attributes like I mean when you use a word that starts with Omni it's like you suddenly feel like this is a long word I get my omn confused and which one is this and I think for a lot of um I'll just speak for a lot of women who are busy trying to maintain careers or managing their homes or just trying to like figure out how to make the most of their Days A lot of times we just feel too busy or maybe too distracted even on social media to like really sit with why does God's character matter like what is it that really why are these words important so if you're not going to Seminary if you go to Seminary maybe you'll encounter these words if you go to a major Bible study that teaches you these words but in our everyday lives it actually does matter who God is because when you and I are facing questions of like what what what do I do next or does God really care that I live in a town where I feel like I don't have Community or I am feeling alone in this particular season of my life I don't have a lot of friends how does God's omnipresence actually matter in all the different seasons of Our Lives when you're a stay-at-home mom and you're just changing diapers all the time and you're not going out with friends and you're not going on trips all over the world what why does that matter and my goal is to say hey ladies whether you consider yourself a theologian or not we're all called to understand and know the grace of God and know the character of God and no better person than Melissa to come and share even a story in her own life of why God's omnipresence matters because and maybe the best way to start is to have her explain what that even means right if we're going to talk about omnipresence it's a big word for anyone who's not familiar with it and didn't you know encounter it in Sunday school or something go ahead Melissa you do the hard work of sharing what it means well this one's a little bit easier I think of all the omnis because it has the nice word presence in there okay I I can maybe Suess this one out you know I do like that's what I I get the other ones confused all the time and I do like to tell people you know logical language is just that it's a language so it can feel intimidating if you don't know it but the concepts are normally really simple and you can understand them and so it's just learning the language and so omnipresence just mean that God is everywhere I mean and this is we used to teach our um kids the catechism and this was one of the questions where is God and I remember my said God is everywhere and um it's you know he was two so a two-year-old can learn this yes but it's something I think we often forget um that God is everywhere and you know I think when I look at scripture it's interesting how much God answers fearful situations not by saying it's not fearful but by saying fear not I am with you it's it's it's thing that often accompanies a fearful situation he's like hey you don't have to worry I know there are giants in the land don't fear I'm with you I to David don't fear I know I know Saul's doing all this stuff don't fear because why because I'm with you I hold you by my right hand and so his presence is this attribute over and over and over in Scripture that God uses to reassure his people and so it's one of my favorite things I like to remind myself of because you know as moms and as people who love people I think one of my greatest fears is losing people I love I mean I think all feel this and I've had to rest in the fact that the Lord says I will never leave you or forsake you like he's the only one who can actually make that promise to me my spouse can't really make that promise my kids can't make that promise and I can't make that promise but the Lord can Faithfully make that promise that I'm with you always Till the End of the Age and so good Melissa that just to reiterate again that he doesn't all God doesn't always answer our fears by taking us out of the circumstance or out of the situation or fixing the situation but he gives us his presence instead I think that is such a word for us and can I mean I don't want to put you on the spot but can you think of a situation or a time in your life either recently or a long time past where he didn't take you out of a fearful situation and gave you the comfort of his omnipresence instead like where did you see that active in your life I think the first time I really started focusing on this was actually when we moved overseas and and look we moved overseas to Scotland and when the people tell me that they are not crying for me they're like you lived in Edinburgh and saying that was hard I get it I've been there I've been there it's besides the rain it's otherwise it's just gorgeous yes so you go visit most people go in the summer when it's like sunlight till 11 what they miss January in January the sun sets at like three it's cold and rainy every day and and we live there pre pre- interet like I was doing like AOL downloads you know this this to get flash sessions you know so it was really hard to stay in contact with people I had my first baby overseas and you know didn't have like I went to the hospital and we literally couldn't even call my parents until she was born because we had to use like a calling card at the hospital super complicated you know we forget how complicated life used to be but um it so it was this assurance that you know I'm far away I can't even really contact people I love much but the Lord is with me in this and that he is guiding me and that this isn't in vain um that he's working it so it's not just that he's present and and this is another one which we won't get into he's actually powerful with his presence in my life so all the all the characteristics of God clearly are always working together always his presence means it's never in vain what I was going through you I felt alone I felt so secluded from everyone else in my life that I loved and cared about and was doing this motherhood thing completely by myself and had no idea what I was doing but to hear the Lord knowing he was with me he he was there in present it it made a huge difference and to think that he actually left the presence of Heaven to come to earth like I had left you know people I loved to go to this foreign land and it was hard and it you know and I didn't want to do it but it it gave me this thing oh the Lord left heaven to come to Earth for me but he did it to rescue me you know so I I I realized oh the the lord gave up so he could be with us and can I trust him when he asked me to go so that we can you know it was for Mike's PhD and my husband's work and all those things and so could I trust him with that but his presence just made was such a comfort was such a comfort if you followed me or Grace lace for very long you know we're big fans of preaching truth to ourselves because what we say to ourselves about who God is and who we are is what we'll end up believing choosing to rehearse truth is the difference between seeing our situations as hopeless or hopeful what better words to plant into our hearts and Minds than the very word of God what would it look like for you and me to memorize God's word you might be thinking wait I'm no good at memorizing scripture and that's exactly why I want to tell you about dwell differently dwell is a company that helps you memorize one Bible verse each month one verse becomes two verses becomes three verses and the next thing you know you have a whole arsenal of verses stored up in your heart and mind words to combat your anxious thoughts in the middle of the night words to speak to your friends who's struggling words that transform your life God's own words for you dwell is a monthly membership of scripture designed to help you and your family easily memorize God's word members receive a kit in their mailbox with temporary tattoos or stickers a keychain and a print featuring a unique way to memorize the verse learn more at dwell.com and use the code Grace La for your first month free Ruth what about you is there a time that you can think back to that you really feel like you experienced God's omnipresence you know I think I was just looking at my window right now and I live in western Colorado and I know that a lot of what I see in Colorado makes it easy for me to sense the presence of God and to be like wow he is in the work of his hands all through creation and I thought you know the truth is I you have to know who he is through the word of God before you can really understand who you're who you're sensing the because God's presence right could be misunderstood as like this feeling you have right do we only have God's presence when we're singing a worship song and there's fog machines and nice lights and the lights are low you know like is that called the presence of God or can you sit in a dorm room you know in the middle of a town that you don't know well because you're a new college student and you still know God's presence because you know who he is and you cry out to him and he overwhelms you with a sense of peace that he loves you and you're his child absolutely but you have to go to his word and know that this is who he is he wants he he wants to shelter you and he wants you to be with him not just to know about him but to know him right and so I think about all the times that we've um not just moved in my adult life but I I relate to what Melissa is saying is because I I was also like raising kids pre um the Internet it's not like like I was logging in every day checking what everybody's talking about there was no online community when I was first a young mama and so when I say that there are really isolating times when you're doing the dishes and maybe you're even listening to this podcast right now and you're doing the dishes and you're like I really haven't had a conversation with somebody other than a toddler today and if that's you I I think the reminder is you don't have to look out the window and immediately say wow look at God's creation I feel the presence of God you can also just do as the psalmist does and truly just speak out and say Lord I I recall and remember what you've done in my life and I know what your word says help me feel and know in my heart what sometimes doesn't feel actively like your presence when I'm doing the dishes and when I'm in the mundane you know and so I've really met him there in the middle of bath times or a a nighttime routine that was hard because that season of My Life life where I was Raising young children and it was difficult that was a good decade long if not more season of chaos and um I think God taught me a lot about his presence in a time when I wasn't you know hopping on a plane I wasn't using my giftings the way I get to now nobody got to see the labors of my hands every single day like I was working behind the scenes and his presence in those obscure and slightly like unappreciated moments of my life that reminded me that I belong to God and that he sees and he knows and that he is constantly with me um took what I was reading in my Bible and I was able to talk to him about hey Lord could you help me feel the very things that I'm reading and he was so faithful to help me even emotionally resonate and understand what it means to be in his presence always even when it didn't physically feel like it you know yeah it's interesting I think that this characteristic too is one that when I look back on my life I can see sometimes even more clearly like oh God was so present with me in that situation or in that moment and that helps me remember for today if it doesn't feel like it like okay but he is and I know he is so it's just I think looking back and seeing his character helps me know that character in the present day too yeah I like that I do think sometimes it's in retrospect that you you look back and say oh this is what the Lord was doing and he was with me even though I couldn't say it sorry rth yeah no Melissa I was going to just ask you for a practical tip if you can come up with one or I'm sure you can just think through your rhythms because none of us feel like God is with us all the time like we don't always feel that way which is why the retrospect The Looking Back makes us realize oh I felt so alone but he was always with me and when he says he'll never leave us like that's actually what he's doing but in the moment sometimes we want something that feels so tangible right and which is why I think it's really easy for us um I mean I'm just confessing myself that it's really easy to turn to things like a bag of chips or a trip to the mall or um even hopping on social media numbing my brain to death it's really easy to turn to things that feel more like I'm not alone or feel comforting rather than turn to God and so rather than the three of us chatting about this like it's really easy can we just throw out a few tips on what do we do when we feel when we have a hard time trusting the omnipresence of God what do we do what are what is a good way to respond and what is a practical T tip what is a practical tip that we can like say okay the next time I don't feel this way this is one thing I can do to get get going in the right direction towards truth yeah you know Ruth I hadn't even thought about it to you ask this question but a lot of the research I just did on teenagers is talking about we have a loneliness epidemic in this country like like the number of teens and I I'm assuming it's not just teens yeah the number probably of women who feel isolated and alone I think has shot up and we saw it in Co I mean we saw it during during that but I I actually think it's the problem of our phones and I think you're 100% right I think we turn to them for community and the the research I looked into it said basically every screen activity was was related to um unhappiness and loneliness every nonscreen activity was related to a better sense of belonging and a better sense of present even in your own life and so I honestly think what you said about being in nature really matters I mean Psalm 19 tells us the heavens declare the glory of God you know day after day they pour forth speech night after night they pour forth knowledge and yeah that that Psalm turns in just a minute and it says the law of the Lord is perfect Reviving The Heart so it goes from General Revelation to specific Revelation this beautiful way but I think there's something about getting outside and watching you know Gardens grow and watching Seasons past I've been looking i i garden you know and it's on my mind a lot but there's something that I see of God's presence in nature because it's speaking what the revealed what the word says in in actuality nature concurs it's like singing a song of everything that's in the scriptures and so by being in nature we're reminded that this is not just happen the stars are too beautiful that sunset's too gorgeous this can't all be an accident right there's got to be something more and so I do think we we we tend to turn to the wrong places for belonging and so we have the beauty of God's created world but also think we have the beauty of the church and being in the presence of God's people can remind us that God is with us and there's something you know and and that connection can happen a lot of ways like Ruth and I'll get on Boxer it's a walkie-talkie app that we'll chat on and you when I hear her her reminding me of truth about God and you know because I've honestly said hey I'm doubting today friend can you help me when she speaks back to me hey you know this this truth whatever it may be about whatever we're talking about it's a reminder God's with us and so he does that through his people he does that through his world he's created um I think we often turn to things that are kind of like spiritual junk food that don't don't really satisfy us but there's really good fulfilling things in his world and in his people that we can turn to when we just don't feel it ourselves I don't know what do you all turn to that was a good question about you Eve what do you do I mean you know me I'm a big fan of praying scripture when I just can't get my head around what's going on or I I don't feel what I know is true and so yeah I think I would go to those passages like where God says he's with us he will never forsake us he'll uphold us with his right hand his presence being with me I just need to say them out loud not just read them but like verbally say them out loud reading that scripture and using it as like God this is my prayer I believe that this is true but I don't feel like it and I need your help to remember I think that's my my go-to yeah what about you love that I think turning off my phone is my number one thing that I have to do because what Melissa said is so true for me because I think I if you ask if you look at my life and this is just being super honest if you look at my life and look at what I turn to for work and for connection and lots of things it would seem that my phone is omnipresent right it is like that is the one companion like my phone I always know where my phone is I mean I don't even think I really need a case on my phone because it's so well protected I mean I I baby that thing and I keep it I always know where that phone is and that phone always knows where I am like it's it's because it holds the key to my bank account and my logins and knows where my kids are and knows everything that's happening with my business and my friends and my family and I'm not saying that it's not a good tool I'm just saying that I forget that God's presence is actually what really goes with me not this device that hold my life together so for me I need physical reminders that it's not that my life will be held safely if I know exactly where that phone is it's that I need to turn it off enough in this weekend I just got back from being out of cell service for three days it's a little funny when your party is split up and somebody has the keys but you don't have self service so you don't actually know who's got the keys so so there are inconveniences when you don't have sell service right I'm not saying to Wi-Fi and Self Service I'm just saying when you actually turn off the thing that you are so ring on that you think is omnipresent in your life and really sit in that discomfort with the Lord where you are just sitting in a quiet spot turn everything off that's when I actually get real honest I think that's when and that's even um I think the last time I called either of you but I know for sure I I mean I for sure call both of you when I'm in really down times but the last time I had a really honest conversation on boxer with Melissa about what I was going through I think I had already had this time with the Lord where I realized like okay before I even talk to my friends I got to just say I am not healthy I am not well right now I am hurting deeply in a way that nobody I don't feel like anybody understands so Lord I have to really talk to you about this and I need to shut everything off so that I can actually be a little honest here and have this communication with you otherwise it feels like there's an endless supply of other people resource forces distractions that can fill in so I would just say on a practical level um whether I take a walk outside or not and that always helps I always say you know we all have access to a sunrise and sunset wherever you live but um but I think I have to physically limit I have to physically limit what I think is omnipresent and what's holding my life together and like re actnow Colossians 17 like re re acknowledge that it is God who holds all things together he is the one who is Ever present in my life and for me to rely on him again you know over and over and it's a daily thing um Melissa in all the chapters in Pilgrim I actually pair it I think you probably know this about me but I love hymns and I pair each um either Doctrine or attribute of God each of these truths I pair it with a hymn that has always kind of helped me remember these truths and this particular one about God's um omnipresence actually went with the hymn abide with me and you know this is the one one of the lyrics in it is abide with me fast Falls the even tide the darkness deepens Lord with me abide when other helpers fail and Comforts flee like cell phones and distractions and all the things that we turn to help of the helpless we're talking about God oh abide with me um I don't know if it's this one but do you have a hymn that reminds you regularly that God is with you like what do you turn to I mean it could be a modern himm too I actually have two of the Gettys HS in here as well but I mean what do you sing and what do you remind yourself with because I think that's what theas did right he just like reminded himself with songs and with reminders that were quick on his lips that God is faithful God is the trustworthy one yeah I think of singing hymns as singing truth to my soul yeah and there's something about singing it that makes me believe it again in a new and Powerful way I don't know it's amazing what it does one of one song I love do youall know in the secret of his presence um Sandra McCracken sing it it's yes in the secret of his presence how my soul oh how precious are the lessons which I learn at Jesus side forever vex me while they raise while th trials lay me low but when Satan comes to T me to that secret place I go to the secret place I go we'll link that we'll leave link that in the show notes but oh my goodness that's a good one I've always loved that beautiful and it's this it it there is this hidden presence with the Lord you know that is so intimate um when we're walking with him and I think it gets back to what you were saying Ruth there are certain things only he can understand we yeah we are blessed by the community of others but everyone's pilgrimage is unique and there are there are things on our Journeys that only the Lord knows we can't share everything with everyone um and there are painful places but I love this no of in the secret of his presence my soul Delights to hide and that there's this hidden Refuge that we can go to of someone who completely understands that's such a gift right it's like when you tell your story sometimes you're like do they really understand what I'm saying yeah and that can sometimes you can leave sharing and feel actually more alone I don't know if you I have felt that yeah totally yeah yeah and and know hey I can go and just pour it all out to the Lord I often journal and that is kind of like this letter I yeah just write it all out and get it all out and there's something that happens that's mysterious and spiritual like the the the work of the Holy Spirit In Our Lives to make us feel that safety and know he is with me I mean it really is the work of the spirit in our lives to to do that and it's it's it's such a gift I think I think when You' walked the Lord a long time you almost forget it that that there I mean I think about how lonely it must be to be alone and not know the Lord like the Deep seated loneliness of that yeah um and what a gift we have of knowing oh the spirit dwells in me and this is why Jesus say better that I go away because the spirit's going to be with you and he's going to dwell in you and you'll never be alone um and what a gra good what a and that's and that's the goal of even this conversation today is that anyone who might be listening wondering gosh am I just supposed to like sign up for a six week course that helps me figure out how to live my best life or what is it that's going to make me make sure that I don't waste this and what's my purpose and we're all wanting to be seen known and loved and Melissa you said it earlier like we turned to the wrong things for belonging and so my prayer and our prayer here is that if you're listening in and you feel a little alone on your Pilgrim Journey that you remember that your Creator God created you on purpose and for purpose and he's never left your side and that you he is available and ready and willing for you to turn and literally just draw near even without cleaning yourself up and say Lord I need your presence and I need to know your presence and if you are not yet in Christ he is your only true savior he is the only one you can actually rely on and walk with and so yeah my prayer is that we would regardless of where our Pilgrim Journeys take us that we would find comfort and true sustenance in the character of God and know that um every step we take whether it's the next you know year of Our Lives if we get one year or we get 30 40 more whatever he gives us that those days will be lived in and walked thoroughly with him and um recognizing that everything we need for life and godliness is found in Christ well we would love to hear a little bit about what projects you are currently working on right now that people where people can find you the best way to connect yeah um the project I was talking a little bit about in this with the loneliness is actually a book on parenting teens um so it's called parenting parenting with hope raising teens for Christ in a secular age um and that has been one of the toughest projects Ruth and I have talked about it um over over a long dinner um with some napkin conversations um but that that will come out actually next in April of 2024 um and then just work at the TGC you know we have conferences coming up um we have a fall conference which is on um basically pil pilgrimage we're gonna be studying Exodus um and so this book is an amazing um you it just goes amazingly well with the so it's kind of beautiful how that the Lord did that and how it works out um and yeah if you want to find any of our resources normally I'm at TGC writing that's the place I'm writing the most um is over there at a place called wits end which is how I often feel is at my witsend it's a good place to be to rely on the Lord so thank you that's where I am well thank you for all the work that you do friend truly um and if you don't know Melissa's incredible children's books and bible studies and book resources and this new one on parenting teens um make sure you um yeah look those things up and I don't know when when is your book coming out the the teen book in April April 202 so it'll be ready for pre-order by the time this year so yeah good thank you friends so much for joining us today oh thanks for having me this is so [Music] fun thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode episode we hope it's been an encouragement to your soul regardless of where your Pilgrim Journey finds you today if you find this podcast enjoyable we would be so honored if you would take a minute to rate the show and leave a review on whatever platform you use to listen and if you haven't already pre-order a copy of Pilgrim from your favorite book retailer learn more at Pilgrim book.com [Music]